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31
Shelter / Semi-Communal Dome Design
« on: April 23, 2014, 04:48:38 AM »
OK, another idea.

Since these Units are designed basically for Singles or at most a Couple, it is a WASTE to have a separate bathroom and kitchen and all the hardware for each of them, not to mention all the lost space with walls and so forth.

So here is an idea for Semi-Communal living that still gives each individual their Private Space.


The Central Area has a shared Kitchen and Bathroom Facility, both much larger than in the Individual Layout.  Outside this central area though, they still have divided Apartments with additional living area and sleeping lofts.  In this arrangement, you could have other separate Rooms like an Office etc.

If it is a facility for the Elderly, this would allow one Assistant to drop in and help in kitchen and bathroom cleanup and also allow these folks to interact with each other and not be Isolated.

This arrangement would give a LOT more living space inside the same size dome by removing the redundancy of so many Bathrooms and Kitchen areas.  3 People just don't need that, it is a waste of space, not to mention expensive hardware.

You would match up people by Interviews and so forth, to find compatible people for each Dome.  The Bonus they get for choosing this style of living is much more Space because the redundant kitchens and bathrooms have been eliminated.  You could go with one Large Refrigerator with separate shelves for each person instead of 3 tiny refrigerators.  One nice 6 burner stove instead of tiny 3 or 3 burner units.  Etc.

There could be separate Cabinets in the Kitchen for each person to store their food and utensils.

Feedback on this idea solicited also.

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32
Shelter / Split Level Dome Design
« on: April 23, 2014, 02:46:02 AM »
I worked on a new idea to use a Split Level arrangement with smaller domes in order to achieve the Headroom on the second level to meet code.  The design also incorporates more Square Angles to accept standard prefab bathroom and kitchen hardware.


This design is working with an approximately 24-28' diameter Dome.  In order to gain the extra headroom in the center, you do a 2-3' excavation before you pour the footing.  Then you have 3-5 steps down to the Kitchen area, and 3-5 steps up to the Sleeping area.  This should be negotiable even for elderly people, and if you took a fall, you would not fall very far. The upper 2/3rds in the diagram show the upstairs layout, the bottom one shows the downstairs and grade level.  No Techy Lofts that go up and down in this design, real rooms.

Advantages here is that your Kitchen has additional thermal mass to hold the heat from your wood stove, and you don't need near so much extra concrete as with building a 2-3'  outer wall to raise up the whole dome.

Obviously I need to get a better design program, Paint is not very good for this but you should get the idea.  I'll hunt up a design program.  Recommendations welcome on that.

Update: Split Level Design II



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33
SUN Newz & Current Events / Re: What to call this category?
« on: April 22, 2014, 11:36:17 PM »
Empath-A person who is capable of feeling the emotions of others despite the fact that they themselves are not going through the same situation.



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34
Shelter / Re: Standard dome Models
« on: April 22, 2014, 05:52:00 PM »

I've been watching the "tiny house movement" for a while.  The challenge is the International Residency Codes. 

I met a woman who works for Tiny House at the airport.  The way they get around the IRC is by building them on trailers so they qualify as mobile housing.  This is pretty unrealistic for concrete domes of course.

In reality, most of the Tiny House people simply fly under the radar, building in Granma's backyard and so forth.  Obviously also, for commercial rental housing, you can't do that either.  You have to meet code.

I wonder if there would be any code restrictions with the drop-down loft?  It's really just a souped up Murphy Bed that goes on the ceiling instead of a wall.

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35
Shelter / Re: Standard dome Models
« on: April 22, 2014, 03:21:58 PM »
In the next unit I added the sleeping loft.  It drops down over the Kitchenette area.

Advantage here is you don't lose any room to the Steps.


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36
Shelter / Re: Standard dome Models
« on: April 22, 2014, 03:07:23 PM »
Here ya go.


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37
Shelter / Re: Standard dome Models
« on: April 22, 2014, 02:50:13 PM »
I stuck to a fourplex because that produces right-angles for the conventional cabinetry, bathroom fitting, etc, to integrate with, for a lot less cost than paying an hourly rate to custom-fit into 60 or 120 degree angles.

If people want to pay a premium for getting away from that "Boxy", I'm all for that.   I favor using local suppliers for the internal work and custom work will help boost the local economy - velocity of money being the only tide that can really lift all boats.

I already have a design for a standard (37') dome with a shop, a laundromat, storage and two offices, with the idea that you sell a "corner shop franchise" to an enterprising individual or couple and perhaps combine it with the rental office.  Ideally, it would also be a distribution point for CSA.

The only place you get a 90 degree angle is in the center where you placed the bathroom.  I'll work on an interior design that will accomodate standard kitchen and bath hardware.  Shouldn't be too hard.

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38
Shelter / Re: Standard dome Models
« on: April 22, 2014, 02:45:14 PM »
Also, if you move the Kitchen Sink over next to the bathroom in your design, you will have a lot less plumbing pipe to buy.

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39
Shelter / Re: Standard dome Models
« on: April 22, 2014, 02:11:35 PM »
GMTA.

I thought of similar aspects of wasted space in the volume and figured a Sleeping Loft could be constructed easily.  The sleeping loft would be suspended from the ceiling and brought down at night to sleep, much as Garage storage systems for the ceiling are rolled up and down.  This would be particularly good for elderly people who might have trouble negotiating the stairs in a full two-story dome.

My other idea is to get away from the Boxy grid like pattern that you get by cutting into quads.  Rather, use a smaller dome and cut it up into thirds.  This gives you the hexagonal pattern of a Honeycomb for the communities, with nice Commons space.  This also makes the best use of your total building area through the principle of close packing.


The other advantage to this is you can hook together as many domes as you want to for larger living spaces, all using the same form.

With both these techniques, you can cut the size of the dome down substantially, which will reduce costs.  Or you could keep the larger size dome and just give more living space to your renters at a slightly higher price.

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40
Resource Depletion / Re: Privatization of Water
« on: April 22, 2014, 12:44:47 AM »
Build Ice Houses in the Winter.  Provides Refrigeration and as the Ice melts you collect the water.

There is unlikely to be a shortage of water here for quite some time.  Even with Global Warming, it will take at least 30 years to melt off the Glaciers.  Below is a photo of the Knik Glacier, which feeds the Knik River.


As you can see by the map below, we are basically swimming in fresh water in my neighborhood.


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41
Resource Depletion / Privatization of Water
« on: April 21, 2014, 06:03:59 PM »
Privatization of Water as an Owned Commodity Rather Than a Universal Human Right

By Joachim Hagopian
Global Research, April 20, 2014

There is no greater natural resource on this earth than water. As the sustenance of all life, water keeps every living and breathing organism, every plant, every animal and every human being on this planet alive. In the same way that without air to breathe, without water we humans cannot sustain life for more than a few days.

Due to global warming, widespread drought and increasingly polluted water systems, the projected availability of clean freshwater in years to come to meet the rising demands of a growing global population is among the most daunting human challenges of this century. By 2015 a 17% increase in global water demand is projected just for increasing agriculturally produced food. By the same year 2025, the growing global population will increase water consumption needs by a whopping 40%. While oil played the keenly critical role during the twentieth century, water is being deemed the most valued precious natural resource of the twenty-first century.

As such, several years ago the United Nations declared access to clean drinking water a universal human right. Conversely, willfully denying it is considered a serious human rights violation that denies life itself. And any calculated decision denying people their universal right to life is nothing short of a murderous, shameful crime against humanity.

Despite the human air pollution that has long been dirtying our lungs, while also causing global warming, climate change and increasing catastrophic natural disasters, not to mention the growing global health hazard for us humans, the very thought of making clean air a precious commodity that can opportunistically be packaged and sold by the same corporations that have been ruining our air, that very notion would instantly be criticized, scorned and ridiculed.

Yet that is exactly what has been happening for the last thirty years now all over this planet with the earth’s preciously dwindling freshwater drinking supply. The World Bank has been financing global privatization of the earth’s water supply making clean water that is so necessary for survival an unaffordable private commodity for the poorest people on earth to even access. They are literally dying of thirst and disease because of greedy psychopathic corporate profiteers once again placing theft and greed over human welfare and life itself.

But then that is the globalist agenda – thinning the human herd down from near seven billion currently to as low as just half a billion. That means 13 out of 14 of us alive today according to their diabolical oligarch plan simply must die within the next few years. And what better way to rapidly kill off the human population than taking full ownership and control over the earth’s limited diminishing water supply.

More people on this planet are dying presently from waterborne disease from dirty water than are dying from all wars and violence worldwide combined. Every hour 240 babies die from unsafe water. 1.5 million children under five years of age die every year from cholera and typhoid fever due to unsanitary water conditions. These incredibly sad, alarming facts illustrate just how significant and critical a clean freshwater supply is to staying alive on this planet. Taking control over the earth’s clean water supply is achieved by turning water into a privately owned commodity that only the largest corporations and banks control. Simply making water unaffordable and thereby inaccessible to the poorest people on the planet is one extremely effective, albeit most sinister way to reduce the so called overpopulation problem.

Three primary ways that the human population decreases significantly every year is death caused by starvation and malnutrition (including lack of drinkable water) at between seven to eight millionpeople, diseases that kill between two to three million (with mounting threats of infectious diseases becoming pandemics) and upwards of near a half million dying each year from war.

Behind closed doors oligarchic globalists periodically meet and discuss what is best for humanity and the planet according to them and their megalomaniacal self-interests. For many years now this all important topic of water privatization and control as a convenient and most effective means of addressing the overpopulation problem has been regularly tabled for discussion… along with related topics like geo-engineering, GMO’s, vaccines, overuse of antibiotics, planned wars over oil and water, devising global policies designed to increase political destabilization, poverty and undermine economies, nuclear radiation and a host of other means for culling the human population.

Time Magazine reported how the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has been financing research at the University of North Carolina among 78 others to develop ultrasound infertility contraception techniques to sterilize male sperm. At a 2010 TED conference Bill Gates spoke openly of depopulating the total of 6.8 billion people living on earth by up to “10 to 15%” using both of his heavily funded vaccine and contraception programs that will render much of the global population infertile. Meanwhile, billionaire Ted Turner went even further, offering his public opinion to decrease the world population by 70% down to “two billion.” It too is on tape.

Calls to begin sterilizing the human population began surfacing back in the mid-1970’s with Henry Kissinger as former Secretary of State and high ranking Bilderberg member in his declassified National Security Council document (1974) entitled “The Implications of World-wide PopulationGrowth on the Security and External Interests of the United States.” This document emphasized highest priority given to implementing birth control programs targeting thirteen Third World nations mostly in South America. Extraordinary resources were allocated through the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) pushing the carrot stick of additional financial aid to countries willing to enact sterilization and depopulation programs.

More overt evidence of the callous contempt that globalist oligarchs have toward us 99%-ers is captured in a statement written by Prince Phillip, Queen Elizabeth II’s husband in the forward of his book, “I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus” to reduce the human population. It seems readily discernable that an explicit globalist agenda for a New World Order openly propagated with repeated references by President Goerge Bush senior includes depopulation through various means, water control through privatization just one of many in the power elite’s arsenal.

Humans have been dying from lack of clean water for a long time now and will only continue dying at an even greater frequency if the plan to privatize water continues to unfold unchecked and without opposition. Fortunately forces have been mobilizing to combat water privatization. Just last week on the heels of the World Bank annual convening in Washington DC for several days ofconferencing, an international coalition of anti-privatization water rights groups from India and America sent a formal message calling on the World Bank to end its destructive practice of privatizing water around the world under the guise of developmental progress. The Bank’s DC meetings had been touting lies and disinformation in an attempt to paint a glowing report showcasing the so called efficacy and successes that turning water rights over to the private sector have accomplished in recent years. The World Bank’s International Finance Corporation (IFC) as the planet’s largest funding source for water privatization provides loans and financing to Third World nations for private water management companies to take charge of municipal, regional and national water rights.

The director of a global advocacy group called Corporate Accountability International, Shayda Naficy, pointed out that 75% of expenses for running a water utility company should go to infrastructure. In nation after nation private companies have placed the priority of making a profit over the need to invest in necessary infrastructure to connect and adequately service water customers. In efforts to maximize cost efficiency as well as profits, water prices invariably go up and fast become out of reach for poorest customers. Cutting off the water supply to thousands of low income families unable to pay for their rising costs has become the all too frequent inevitable result. The World Bank’s 34 percent failure rate for all private water and sewerage contracts between 2000 and 2010 far surpasses its single digit failure rates in the telecommunications, energy and transportation industries.

Critics maintain that the public sector is far more accountable to its public constituents than private sector businesses that only answer to its board of directors to show sufficient profits. Corruption becomes commonplace. Additionally, a conflict of interest exists when the IFC acts as both a money lender and consultant to foreign municipalities in assigning no bid contracts to favored private water utility companies.

To best illustrate typical scenarios where water privatization is either not working or already proved a failure deserve close examination. The good news is that in recent years people in various parts of the world have been mobilizing successful efforts and campaigns to stop water privatization in their own backyards. Presently in a number of regions in India, citizens are banding together to confront and fight the myriad of problems with water privatization in their country.

Recently in Nagpur, central India’s largest city where the country’s first municipal partnership with a private utility company is being played out, major tensions have erupted. Three years ago the city signed a 25-year contract with Veolia Water to supply the city of 2.7 million residents with 24 hour-7-days a week water service. Instead unforeseen delays driving up prices manyfold along with unfair water distribution and frequent service breakdowns have led to widespread angry protests in the streets and charges of corruption. City officials point to a series of serious contract violations. Again cutting corners by refusing to invest in the needed infrastructure appears to be the primary cause for this failed project. The Corporate Accountability International’s 2012 report called “Shutting the Spigot on Private Water: The Case for the World Bank to Divest” cites a number of similar cases where privatization has proven ineffective.

Bold and empowered citizens in Bolivia in the year 2000 made headlines around the globe when they were victorious in kicking out privatized water there in the form of the Bechtel, the fifth largest private corporation on the planet. Impassioned protestors in Bolivia’s third-largest city managed to oppose Bechtel’s increasing prices and demanded that the company abandon its hold on their city’s municipal water supply, eventually driving the powerful scandalous giant out of the country. Though big business efforts to buy and control water rights in many Latin American nations have each had their turn in nations like Equator and Brazil, only Chile water services are privatized. Ultimately local residents virtually everywhere privatization has attempted to take hold has been met with such strong resistance from consumers who realize their private utility company has failed miserably in delivering quality service at affordable prices.

The story is always the same. That is why advocacy groups like Corporate Accountability International is proactively working toward educating governments and citizens worldwide to ensure water remains under the public domain. The exhaustive and expensive legal process of ending long term contracts and successfully removing privatized foreign corporations once established in a city, state or country is formidable. It is obviously in the best interests of people around the world to ensure privatization of their water supply never gets a local foothold in the first place.

Nestlé corporation’s marketing campaign targeted wealthy Pakistanis in Lahore, and its brand of bottled water ‘Pure Life’ became a status symbol for the rich. To bottle its product, Nestlé busily dried up local underground springs that subsequently caused the village poor unable to buy the bottled water stolen from their springs to end up consuming contaminated water. Nestlé went on to extracting water from two deep wells in Bhati Dilwan village, forcing them to turn to bottled water. A similar story emerged from Nigeria where a single bottled water exceeds the average daily income of a Nigerian citizen. Nestlé is notorious for draining local water supplies used to bottle its water brands, then charge unaffordable prices to the local population whose clean water supply was stolen from them.

Corporate Watch released a report exposing some of the unethical and illegal practices that Nestlé has long been committing around the globe, completely disregarding public health concerns while destroying natural environments to ensure huge annual profits of $35 billion just from water bottle sales alone. In Brazil’s Serra da Mantiqueira region where the groundwater is rich in mineral content containing medicinal properties, over-pumping has depleted its valuable water resources and caused permanent damage to the natural environment. and long-term damage.

Nestlé has also allegedly been involved in human trafficking of child slave labor. A BBC investigative report claimed that “hundreds of thousands of children in Mali, Burkina Faso and Togo were being purchased from their destitute parents and shipped to the Ivory Coast to be sold as slaves to cocoa farms.” Yet Nestlé likely bought the cocoa from the Ivory Coast and Ghana knowing it was produced using child slaves.

Finally, Nestlé owns or leases fifty spring sites throughout America. Nestlé controls a third of the domestic market for bottled water in the US. The company is notorious for unlawful extraction of spring water while engaging in price-gouging and reeking havoc in numerous communities. An example of the trouble Nestlé typically causes is Colorado where 80% of the citizens of Aurora were opposed to Nestlé’s presence, fully aware of the company’s terrible reputation for damaging communities and natural environments. Yet the city council voted in favor 7 to 4 to let the devastation begin and over the next decade Nestlé extracted 650 million gallons of precious Arkansas River valley water that went into its Arrowhead Springs brand of bottled water. For years the embattled townspeople of Aurora fought to rid the company predator from destroying their precious aquifers. Additionally, the plastic non-biodegradable bottles are major pollutants that stay toxically intact for a full millennium.

The cumulative grave effects of privatizing water as a global commodity are appalling. The underprivileged residents of Jakarta, Manila and Nairobi pay 5 to 10 times more for water than those living in high-income areas of those same cities. People living in the Third World slums even pay more for water than upscale New Yorkers and Londoners. This kind of unfairness and inequity is obscene. Women in places in Africa where privatized water is beyond their limit walk miles to obtain dirty water from rivers and then too often die along with their children from contamination and disease. Asian farmers are losing their livelihoods if they are unable to receive state funded irrigation. The human suffering caused globally by wealthy private corporations from North America and Europe exploiting people from Third World nations for pure profit is nothing less than pure psychopathic evil.

Taking on global privatization of water for the well being and greater good of the people is but an example of the monumental work that needs to be done. Only if informed, caring and committed human beings collectively come together worldwide to take a global stand against this gravest of life and death issues facing humanity can this oligarch agenda be stopped dead in its tracks. As global human rights activists it is up to us to end the global corporate malevolence and malfeasance from further damaging and afflicting our planet like never before. With the recent formal finding that Americans no longer live in a democracy but an oligarchy, as if we did not already painfully know, it becomes even more “formally” imperative now that we as ordinary citizens of the world take the vested interest in preserving life on our only planet before it becomes too late. It is high time we take back our planet once and for all from the oligarchic corporatocracy bent on insidiously making our earthly home increasingly uninhabitable for all life forms.

Mass extinction of plant and animal species that have thrived on this planet for millions of years is silently, invisibly taking place every single day right before our eyes. At ever-perilous stake now is our own human species as well as all living species inhabiting this earth, suffering at the hands of national governments that have corruptly co-opted with the banking cabal-owned transnational corporations and for too many decades been systematically destroying the richly diverse natural ecosystems of all earthly life forms on an unprecedented scale.

Since governmental co-opting with global fortune 500 corporations has been polluting and poisoning the earth’s skies, its waters, food sources and seeds for so long, global theft and destruction has us humans and all life forms teetering now on the brink of complete self-annihilation and extinction, human-induced for the first time on a massive never before seen scale. It is time to hold the oligarchy in the form of corporations responsible for all the damage they have reeked on this earth. No more grotesque “Abama-nations” of bank and Wall Street bailouts at taxpayer expense. Since the 99% in debt to the hilt have been squeezed dry, while the 1% have made this planet nearly unlivable as the only ones filthily richly profiting from their plundering this earth, the transnationals are the sole entities with the financial capital and means to clean up the very mess they created. It is only fair then that after an entire century of mucking the planet up at our expense, that they now need to finally be held accountable for repairing the destruction they directly caused and obscenely profited from.

Joachim Hagopian is a West Point graduate and former Army officer. His written manuscript based on his military experience examines leadership and national security issues and can be consulted at http://www.redredsea.net/westpointhagopian/. After the military, Joachim earned a masters degree in psychology and became a licensed therapist working in the mental health field for more than a quarter century. He now focuses on writing. 

42
Community / Re: What is Community?
« on: April 21, 2014, 02:44:41 PM »
The new rules and the anti-Diner have basically put a stop to the nonsense going on, so it really isn't any different than this forum, just there is more stuff in the archives.

I am going a bit nuts here having to check all these different forums for latest posting.  Can we get them all on feeds to a single page for checking?

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43
Community / Re: What is Community?
« on: April 21, 2014, 02:34:38 AM »
The "Sticking Together" aspect is one that concerns me also.

As it appears now, shuffling the Trolls over to the Anti-Diner and Moderating their posting on the Diner itself seems to have brought the matter under control, far as they are concerned anyhow.

Not so sure about how this is playing out with everyone else's psychology though.  I perceive that many of you have "withdrawn" from the Diner.  Regardless of whether the Trolls are blabbering or not, in the aftermath it seems less effective/worthwhile to spend time posting up and trying to communicate this way.  If all you get out of it is a lot of acrimony, why bother eh?  If nobody responds to your On Topic threads, why bother posting up about your latest project?

Staying the course when you run into a shit storm is darn hard, and even more than that finding your way back after you have been blown off course is even harder.  For myself, I am committed, have been since my earliest days on Reverse Engineering.  When I first got Banned from Peak Oil, for a good 3 months or so I just wrote to nobody really.  A few posters from Peak Oil occassionally dropped in, but mostly I was just dropping thoughts onto a disk that nobody would ever read.  A cyber-diary it was in those days.

The evolution to the Diner led me to depend on people and believe in them as being as committed as I am, but that probably is not a valid belief.  I put my heart and soul into this project, and I don't let anything stop me or get me so down I will quit on it.  Lord only knows I have been tried along the way, but I can't quit anymore, no matter how stupid the shit gets across cyberspace.  I don't think anyone else is quite that invested in the project.

Anyhow, I hope those of you who have been part of this project will stay the course with me.  I certainly cannot start over here, and do the whole process over again of trolling websites to find people of like mind to make such a thing work.  If this fails, it's OVAH.  The Fat Lady Sings for the Diner.


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44
Community / Re: What is Community?
« on: April 20, 2014, 04:22:10 PM »
Well, actually I created a new "Troll Containment Facility" with the Anti-Diner.

After so much time spent developing the Diner, gaining readership and listenership etc, I couldn't simply abandon the Diner to the Trolls to wreak havoc with it endlessly.  The Diner has a wealth of information in the archives, which nobody will bother to access if they are constantly are bombarded by various forms of napalm.

The problem for me is to find the right balance, where you can allow folks with contrarian ideas to have their say, but not let pathological personalities take over the asylum, so to speak.  Problem there is what seems pathological to one person often seems reasonable to another one, particularly when the pathological personality flips back and forth from being "reasonable" and "informative" to being vitriolic and destructive.

Obviously, once you allow yourself to Delete or otherwise throw the bad apple out of the barrel, you can keep your discussions on track.  However, this is one of those "slippery slopes", and if you happen to be the one in the position of making the decision to pitch somebody off the island, you get second guessed by everyone on this.

An example here would be MKing, who numerous folks told me I should pitch out ages ago, but at the same time I heard from Harry he was a valuable source of industry information we should keep around.  Although I often saw signs in Uncle Bob of instability (the writing style for one), he also had worthwhile information to contribute during his more lucid moments.

The internet of course provides a lot of options, such as setting up a whole new forum to house the disgruntled, but that is a whole lot less possible in a Real Life Community, such as an Occupy Encampment or a Sunstead.  In those situations, if you have disgruntled people making noises all the time that prevent substantive conversation from taking place, what do you do about that without having an Authority Figure who says "Enough is Enough"?

Certainly, having everyone join up with a solid Mission Statement and agreeing to a set of Roberts Rules is a good idea, but what occurs down the line as the Children grow up?  Teenagers necessarily rebel against Authority, and how do you handle that?  A good spanking works OK at 5 years old, it generally is not so effective at 15.

Shunning and other social conventions have worked in the past, but at least in online communities it doesn't seem to work.  For one thing, the Readers find it quite difficult to ignore trash talk, and particularly if you perceive something as EVIL, you don't wanna let Satan win out here.  Evil reigns when Good Men stay silent and all of that.

Anyhow, I didn't answer any questions here, just added more to ponder on.  Difficult problem overall.

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45
Community / What is Community?
« on: April 20, 2014, 02:31:43 AM »
The recent collapse of the Diner Forum discussion has led me to wonder about Community in general.

Even though I disagreed with some of the Diners, I always held out the hope that differences could be resolved through discussion.  After all, everyone who was on the Diner had some realization that BAU could not continue onward, even Moriarty realized this, although his fracking solution was not real popular.

Free Speech didn't solve any problems on the Diner, and I wonder now if Free Speech is really possible within a community?  If/when some people start speaking out vociferously AGAINST the community, how long can the community permit Free Speech?  Eventually the cacophany becomes overwhelming, and whatever it was you were trying to work out gets lost in the acrimony.

So here I solicit a Question?  If you can't really have Free Speech, what sort of limitations do you make in order to allow questioning, but not allow cacophany to undermine the community as a whole?  Is there some Happy Medium that can be achieved here?

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